In The Trenches Video Series
Security Camera Box Mounts
In this In the Trenches Episode our expert installation panel will discuss the ever important box that goes by many names, like box mounts, back boxes, electrical box mounts, and of course junction boxes.
Our speakers today are:
- > Calver Brewer
- > Benjamin Larue
- > Gil Illescas
- > Micah Shearer
Calver Brewer:
Yeah. I'd say, rule of thumb, 99% of the time, almost all the time, if you are mounting a camera outside, use an electrical mounting box.
Ben Larue:
Hello. Welcome back to another episode of In the Trenches Roundtable. Today we're going to be doing an installation focused episode, and hold your horses, we've got an exciting one on the table, mounting boxes. So we got an awesome panel of experts with us again today. Hope everyone's doing well.
Micah Shearer:
Good, yeah.
Ben Larue:
Awesome. Awesome. So I'd love to dive right in. I'd love for Gil, start us off. What is a box mount?
Gil Illescas:
Box mount is required when we have a whole bunch of cable and nowhere to put it, to just be real straight up about it. Some of these cameras, most of them have some kind of cable whip coming off of them, which is what we connect the actual Cat6 type cable to, and other things that we can connect to those cables, but we have to put it somewhere. So the electrical box mount is what we use for our cameras to put the cable in when we mount it to a wall or ceiling. That's the quick run of it, but there's going to be more to that as we go on.
Ben Larue:
Of course, as expected, absolutely. But I think that's a pretty good synopsis. So this is a question for the group then. When and why should we use back boxes or mounting boxes?
Calver Brewer:
I think you want to use them whenever you can possibly in order to contain the termination point, it'll make your camera last longer, keep the RJ45 connection from corroding over time. So I would recommend using them whenever possible to try to get the longest life you can out of your camera.
Micah Shearer:
Yeah, cool.
Gil Illescas:
When you're mounting the brick or concrete or anything structurally or surface wise, that's really hard to push cable back into a wall or a ceiling or something like that. When you're going to just have it out there exposed, it's just really easy to curl it up in the back box and mount the camera to it.
Micah Shearer:
And when you say curl it up, you're talking about what you refer to as a cable whip before the little, the junction, the weatherproofing that goes over that actual connection point, pushing that either back through a wall or into the mounting box itself.
Gil Illescas:
Yep, exactly.
Calver Brewer:
The pigtail that comes from the camera.
Gil Illescas:
Pigtail.
Micah Shearer:
Somebody should be keeping a list of how many different terms we've used to describe it.
Ben Larue:
Seriously. I was going to say, geez, as while we're talking about terms, we've been using multiple terms for the back box or mounting boxes themselves, so they can be referred to as a couple different things it sounds like.
Gil Illescas:
They can. Yeah, there's a lot of companies in the industry that refer to them differently. I think our term is electrical mount box, if I'm correct, but back box, just back box in general has been more standard probably. Cal probably knows it couple, I don't know.
Calver Brewer:
Yeah, or junction box, I guess you could use that term as well. Yeah, I think you hit them all though.
Ben Larue:
Yeah. And on that note of junction box, that's what I was going to ask next is can I just go to my local hardware store and purchase an electrical junction box and use that?
Calver Brewer:
Yeah, could. I mean it wouldn't look great. Usually manufacturers create special electrical box mounts for each camera and each model camera. So aesthetically it's going to look better if you purchase that box mount from the manufacturer to fit with that particular camera. But you can, say, go to your hardware store and just buy a single gang junction box and attach the camera to the face of that box. I think the box mounts from the manufacturer seal a little bit better, so you're not going to be as susceptible to water damage if you just go get a regular junction box from the hardware store, it's not really going to have that rubber strip around the edges to be able to seal and weatherproof.
Micah Shearer:
It's aesthetically going to be really different too because you're not going to get, typically when you buy one specific to the camera, it's the exact same shape, it's the same material.
Gil Illescas:
Right. The hole pattern.
Micah Shearer:
So yeah, it looks like part of the device instead of looking like you kind of cobbled something together.
Gil Illescas:
And like Cal said, the ceiling, but the whole patterns are huge because if you just go get a single gang, double gang, we used to use these octagonal boxes.
Micah Shearer:
Seen those.
Gil Illescas:
They used to work really good over some. They would when the bullet style and dome style cameras, some of them didn't come with back boxes back in the day. You had to kind of make it up as you went. So those octagonal ones worked okay, but like Cal said, there was no ceiling and the hole patterns don't fit. That's the best part of the back boxes. The hole patterns match perfectly. You go out and get one at a hardware store, have fun, you're going to have to figure it out.
Ben Larue:
Right. No, that's a really good point. On that note too, can I use a new camera I purchased with maybe an old box that I maybe have of you all? We mentioned the hole patterns might be different and stuff. Does that matter that much?
Micah Shearer:
Maybe, maybe not. Sometimes they're consistent. If the base stays the same, you can typically reuse the mounting box, but if the base is changed or if the hole pattern has changed, then won't. It's pretty much case by case.
Ben Larue:
Gotcha.
Gil Illescas:
Yeah, check the specs, the specs will determine. So it's very important if they want back boxes to make sure that the specs match up.
Ben Larue:
Gotcha, gotcha. And maybe you guys could correct me if I'm wrong here, but is there scenarios where you know, might not want to use a mounting box at all? Because I noticed most of our models, it's an optional accessory. [inaudible 00:06:11].
Micah Shearer:
A lot times inside, if you're mounting to drywall, you don't really need the extra device, you're just going to push that cable right back through the hole so it's hanging down behind the drywall anyway. So there's no additional weatherproofing advantage, there's no additional sort of cable management advantage. So it's not just really needed in that situation. And I suppose sometimes if you're doing a ceiling tile mount, you're going to buy a specific ceiling tile mounting device that includes all of the functions of the back box. So you may not want it in that situation because you're buying something complimentary that's serving a similar purpose.
Ben Larue:
Gotcha. Gotcha. Makes sense. Awesome. Well one thing we haven't covered, but we mentioned a bunch, sealing. Sounds like the mounting box is there's a certain way to seal them or a proper way to seal them?
Calver Brewer:
Yeah, usually, I mean if they're designed for the camera that you're using, usually the cameras just fit perfectly to the face of the electrical mounting box and then you just want to make sure that all the screws on the electrical mounting box are tight and that the face of the box fits to the box itself really, really well. I mean a lot of times when people install these cameras, they think they're attaching the box perfectly. It looks fine visually, but then you come back a couple months later and the box is full of water. So some people that I've run into will run an extra bead of silicone around the edge of the electrical box mount just to kind of double down on the weatherproofing. But if you just are really careful about making sure that the face fits perfectly to the box, then it should do its job and be a weatherproof.
Micah Shearer:
And sealing that particular opening can get funky. If you need to troubleshoot or pull it off, then you're dealing with this bead of silicone, it's really better to just make sure you mount it correctly to begin with. Cal, can you speak to how often are you adding sealant where the junction box meets the mounting surface? Between the box and the wall? Are you doing that a lot?
Calver Brewer:
Oh, that's more common. Yeah, that's a lot more common. If you make a penetration into a structure, you definitely want to add some kind of sealant or silicone to where the cable comes through that structure because water has a good way of traveling down the cable pathway back into the structure and that can cause issues down the road. Say it gets mixed up with your electrical or something like that, and then you just have a whole other laundry list of problems. So definitely you want to make sure you seal any penetrations into structures or into ceilings or into walls or whatever. But you don't necessarily have to seal the electrical mounting box itself every time.
Micah Shearer:
Like where it meets the camera.
Calver Brewer:
The back of box, where it meets the structure.
Gil Illescas:
Water will find a way. I mean, I've seen things where I'm like, I don't know how water got into that, but it does. It's just incredible and it just messes everything up and it corrodes and next thing you know guys like, "Oh, all my cameras are out." And then you go find out why.
Calver Brewer:
And it costs money. I mean really though, just do it right the first time and you're not going to run into just spending all kinds of money to replace all of your equipment.
Ben Larue:
I think that's the key, right? Saving a couple bucks on boxes from the hardware store versus especially built one for the camera, that's pennies to the dollar compared to replacing whole system down the road.
Calver Brewer:
Yeah, exactly.
Gil Illescas:
Another good usage for back box is when you're running conduit to the cameras locations also.
Ben Larue:
Thank you Gil. Yes. I noticed our boxes have little, it looks like a little plug or something coming out the bottom of them.
Gil Illescas:
They do. They do on the side and the back so the conduit will be able to fit right in. And obviously how and where you mount it will dictate how that comes in, but it's really kind of the most secure, best application if it can be done. It's a little pricey, but it's preferred if you can for sure.
Calver Brewer:
Yeah, SCW electrical mounting boxes have a threaded knockout on the bottom and the back, so you just need a threaded compression connector to connect to your EMT if you're using that. If you're using Flex, obviously use a different connector to connect to the electrical mounting box, but both ours on the back and the bottom are threaded, so you can make that connection and make sure it's sealed and you're good to go.
Gil Illescas:
Yep.
Ben Larue:
Yeah, that's awesome. That's great. I mean, mounting boxes, that's pretty much it, right? Any other major considerations or concerns we should be thinking about?
Gil Illescas:
Some people don't like the aesthetics of them, customers, clients, they do make it longer, thicker, so you have to take that into consideration on whether it's necessary versus not as far as how the client perceives it. Because it can double the size of some of the domes, you know what I mean?
The other thing is when you're putting it in structures that are low ceiling like parking structures and stuff, you have to really account for that distance. Because I've seen structures where the beams were be it like six and a half to seven feet and the extra couple inches of a back box, although required, can make the difference of a truck getting through there or not. So just things to consider.
Ben Larue:
Right. No, that's a really good point. Definitely.
Micah Shearer:
I think we should package this video up and send it off to marketing to explain why they're not a default option. Because there are different considerations and choices. It seems like it would be easier to just make them come with every camera and some manufacturers do. But then you end up in these situations where you've got interior cameras that don't really need them. You're dealing with height issues. It really does need to be a little bit more of a thoughtful decision.
Calver Brewer:
And a lot of manufacturers like us, if you do use the electrical box mount, that does give you a lot of other mounting options that the electrical box mount's attached to, like corner brackets or pole brackets or mounts, all that good stuff. So using the electrical box mount allows you to use those other options as well.
Ben Larue:
Yeah. We talked a little bit about what a mounting box is and maybe some places where we would use it, but is there a good rule of thumb you definitely should use it here or not there?
Calver Brewer:
Yeah, I'd say rule of thumb, 99% of the time, almost all the time, if you are mounting a camera outside, use an electrical mounting box.
Ben Larue:
Right. Really opens [inaudible 00:12:45].
Gil Illescas:
If you leave it up to the installation tech, they're going to want the back box 99% of the time, but it's not always up to them. They don't always know the scenario and the customer has some input.
Ben Larue:
So, well, I think that's going to wrap it up for mounting boxes today, electrical boxes or back boxes, however you prefer to refer to them. We don't judge here. We just want to make sure you know what you need to know to make sure we get it done the first time. That's what it's all about. So make sure to check out the resources and the description below. Thanks again to the awesome panel that joined us here today and stay tuned for the next couple weeks, we'll be diving into the deeper layers of mounting. So here we go. Thanks so much again for tuning in and we'll see you next week.