In The Trenches Video Series
Security Experts Discuss How High Should You Mount Your Security Cameras
In this series we're talking about how high you should mount your security cameras.
Our speakers today are:
- > Micah Shearer
- > Calver Brewer
- > Gil Illescas
- > Ben Larue
Video Transcript
Micah Shearer:
Why is 12 to 14 feet this sweet spot?
Calver Brewer:
It's because we like even numbers.
Micah Shearer:
Fair.
Gil Illescas:
It gets it out of the SWAT zone without [inaudible 00:00:11] too high.
Micah Shearer:
Is that a technical term, the SWAT zone?
Gil Illescas:
The SWAT zone?
Ben Larue:
The SWAT zone. And we like even numbers. That is it.
Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of In the Trenches Round Table. We've got a really awesome episode for you today. Excited to dive into it. We're going to be talking about mounting height of cameras, so there's a lot of nuances here, and again, we'll dive into it. But first, we've got an awesome panel of all of our experts here.
Micah Shearer:
Hi.
Gil Illescas:
Hello.
Ben Larue:
Sweet. Again, really excited to start diving into this one. So we're just going to jump right in. This is open-ended for anybody to answer. Cal, Mic, Gill. I've got a camera system. I'm ready to install it. How high should I mount these things?
Calver Brewer:
Yeah, please.
Ben Larue:
I was looking at that. About this high.
Calver Brewer:
Yeah, as high as you want, man. Throw them in the sky if you need it.
Ben Larue:
Yeah, top of the flagpole in my front yard?
Calver Brewer:
Absolutely.
Micah Shearer:
Totally. I like to check for bald spots.
Calver Brewer:
Yeah. Yes.
Gil Illescas:
[inaudible 00:01:22] Shaq can't whack it out of the [inaudible 00:01:24].
Calver Brewer:
Yeah, in that study on male pattern baldness in America. I like it.
Gil Illescas:
I have to worry the face doesn't look like this.
Micah Shearer:
Yes. You kind of have two variables that you're bouncing between. You put it too high, you're just doing a study on male pattern baldness, as Cal says. You put it too low, it's vulnerable to something coming up and whacking it, moving it, adjusting it.
Ben Larue:
Awesome.
Calver Brewer:
I think-
Micah Shearer:
Cool, episode over. Decided.
Calver Brewer:
Yeah, we're done. We're done. Wrap it up. No, when I think of low cameras, typically indoor cameras, you're usually looking at 7, 8, 9 feet, somewhere below 10 feet, usually, if the ceiling permits. And then when I think of a high camera, anywhere from 12 to 16 feet, something maybe on a pole, like construction site, camera, outdoor, all tall walls, I guess.
Ben Larue:
Side of buildings and stuff, yeah.
Gil Illescas:
Yeah, angle determines everything, right?
Calver Brewer:
Yeah.
Gil Illescas:
Because without knowing the angle of the shot that you're taking, we really can't adjust the height to match what we need to see. That's kind of your starting point, the old Pythagorean theorem, right?
Micah Shearer:
Yeah, we need a whiteboard with some geometry on it.
Ben Larue:
Well, our amazing editor's going to take care of all that.
Gil Illescas:
The old Pythagorean theorem - A squared plus B squared equals C squared.
Ben Larue:
Yeah, absolutely. But no, what everyone's saying is absolutely true, but I think what Gil is hinting at is absolutely the most, that biggest consideration you should have. Angle, what you're trying to capture?
Gil Illescas:
Knowing for sure what the customer wants to see.
Ben Larue:
Absolutely.
Calver Brewer:
There's definitely drawbacks from either or. Too high, you're going to lose a lot of the camera's features, functionalities. You're not going to capture facial features as well. You're going to kind of have a more wide range shot. The lower you get, obviously the more zoomed in and straight on of an angle. You're going to get somebody's facial features and have a better chance of actually identifying somebody through the video. So I guess there's drawbacks to both.
Ben Larue:
Well, that's a good segue actually, Cal, can we talk through some of the considerations or upsides of cameras that are mounted high?
Micah Shearer:
When would you mount a camera very high?
Calver Brewer:
I guess when you want to... Well, type of camera, you've got to take that into consideration. If you have something very focal or a PTC, you can get away with being a little higher up, more of a zoom.
Micah Shearer:
And that's because you can adjust the angle of view, which is going to be irrelevant if you've got distance from the camera though? Yes? And by distance from the camera, I mean the thing you're trying to see is far enough away from the camera that as you zoom in, you're still getting a good angle?
Calver Brewer:
Right.
Micah Shearer:
Yes.
Calver Brewer:
And I guess with that, with the camera and the field of view, it creates kind of like a triangle and I guess you have a dead zone at either end of the triangle, close to where the camera's mounted. You kind of have that dead zone from where you're looking down and you miss, say the camera's on a wall, you're going to miss everything directly underneath it. Then further away, the other end of the triangle, say somebody's walking at the other end of the triangle and they're six feet tall, but the end of the triangle goes down to the ground, you're going to miss until they get to that sweet spot.
Gil Illescas:
Good point. For sure. I think a lot of customers are like 'Out of sight, out of mind.' Most people will walk under cameras and not really look up for cameras. So the higher up they can get them with getting the field of view that they want or the shot they want, probably. That's the sweet spot, especially warehouse or retail environments. Unless [inaudible 00:05:26].
Ben Larue:
Thanks, Gil.
Gil Illescas:
It all depends. If they're looking for facial features, that the camera can do the job if you get the right camera, you could have it a hundred feet up if you want, but the camera's got to be able to do the shot that you want. So then we're talking about the specs of the camera more than the height of the camera. But then you're talking about, okay, so then what are we truly drilling down and looking at? It's retail. Are we looking at what dollar bills they're picking out of a register? If it's pharmaceutical manufacturer packing drugs, are we looking to see how many drugs are they putting in the bottle? There's just so many variables to it. Those are the questions that have to be answered before we decide camera height and specifications of the camera.
Ben Larue:
Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Well, that's it. That ends this video. Thanks, Gil. Appreciate it so much.
Micah Shearer:
So to recap, maybe a little more literally here. So question number one, what are you trying to see? Question number two, what angle is going to give you that view? That's really where it comes down to. And different cameras will allow for different angles essentially. Some cameras have more flexibility and the angles that you can have. PTZ will allow you to move it around and potentially capture different angles. But you have to be very aware that when you are moving the camera, you might be missing something else. So there's all those variables with PTZ, and the next consideration kind of comes in, if the angle that you need to capture what you want is low, how are you going to handle vulnerability and risk? [inaudible 00:07:19].
Gil Illescas:
Or another one, obstacles. [inaudible 00:07:23]
Micah Shearer:
So what's in the way?
Gil Illescas:
[inaudible 00:07:25], lighting structures, lights, period. We don't want lights in front of the camera.
Ben Larue:
No, that's absolutely true. Yeah. Obstructions, trees, things that could potentially get in the way, need to take in consideration when you're mounting that camera and when you're angling it, if it's the winter, that view might look a lot different than what it might look like in summer when that tree fills in.
Calver Brewer:
One thing a lot of people don't talk about with mounting height is how susceptible it is to debris or dust. So like a lower camera, if it's super windy, you might be obstructed by dust and stuff from the ground. Higher up, you're not going to be as susceptible to stuff like that. Something to take into consideration as well.
Ben Larue:
That's actually a really good point, Cal. Really, really good point. I was just talking to a client the other day who had a low mounted license plate capture camera, and he was getting mud splashing up on it. So that's actually a really, really good point.
Gil Illescas:
There's also that service height threshold where it changes from ladder access to lift access.
Micah Shearer:
There's an impact on the long-term cost of ownership for that camera the higher you mount it.
Calver Brewer:
Yeah, if you have a lift on site, then whatever [inaudible 00:08:43] you want to, but if you've got to pay to get one out every time, definitely going to want to keep it... I guess what do our proposals say that our proposals that we send out say they will be mounted from 12 to 14 feet, unless it's otherwise specified by the customer or the ceilings are too low and they don't let us go that high.
Micah Shearer:
And why do we start at 12? Why is that sort of that... Why is 12 to 14 feet the sweet spot?
Calver Brewer:
It's because we like even numbers.
Micah Shearer:
Fair.
Gil Illescas:
It gets it out of the SWAT zone without it being too high.
Micah Shearer:
Is that a technical term? The SWAT zone?
Gil Illescas:
The SWAT zone.
Ben Larue:
The SWAT zone. And we like even numbers. That is it. Wrap.
Gil Illescas:
I can tell you, there's so many ways cameras are affected. We've all heard paintball and you'll pull your belts off, swing it around and throw it down.
Ben Larue:
Yeah, definitely. When we give recommendations on mounting height, that 12 to 14 range. 12 feet because it's out of the range of someone who would be about six feet with reaching, with a tool to maybe disrupt the camera view or spray paint it or fire extinguish it, all the things we just talked about. And below that 14 foot threshold for service reasons, of course, but mainly because we don't want to be capturing the top of people's heads, right? If we take away all the variables with all the different camera models and things, that 12 to 14 foot range is ideal because you're out of the vandalism zone and you're within still capturing the face zone.
Micah Shearer:
Why would you choose to mount a camera much lower given the risk of vandalism or tampering?
Calver Brewer:
So when you're really, really, really concerned with identifying faces, if you're somewhere like a gas station, for example, and you have a lot of people that might want to rob your registers or something, you definitely want to make sure you get a straight on view of that person's face. So you can submit that footage to the authorities and they can actually identify the person instead of the bill of their hat.
Ben Larue:
And in fact-
Gil Illescas:
Go ahead. Sorry.
Ben Larue:
No, no, go ahead, Gil?
Gil Illescas:
Well, yeah, what Cal just said is a direct reflection of that angle. You're reducing the angle if it's lower to more of a straight-on shot, so it helps getting faces a lot better.
Ben Larue:
Can we talk about some of the specific use cases that you would want to really think about uniquely adjusting the mounting height? We've kind of covered a few of them, but I really want to just calculate it in its own section here. What are some use cases where we would mount cameras lower or maybe higher?
Calver Brewer:
Yeah, like you said, license plate capture cameras. You're going to want to kind of mount those a little lower so you have a more straight on angle at the license plate and you reduce the amount of glare.
Micah Shearer:
Yeah, you don't want it any more than, I think it's 45 degrees?
Calver Brewer:
45 degrees yep. Else you're going to get lots of glare and not be able to read the plate.
Micah Shearer:
Does that still feel too..?
Gil Illescas:
Yeah, we used to use a 30 degree plus or minus offset.
Micah Shearer:
30 degrees
Gil Illescas:
From center. So either way. That 30 degrees is up or down, also.
Calver Brewer:
Right.
Micah Shearer:
In some situations, you can push the camera back and use a camera that zooms in farther so that you still get the 30 degree angle, but you are moving it out of that tamper zone. We've deployed that. I've definitely done some Google Maps, like measuring distances and running the theorem to figure out how far back I need to move it in order to keep it at 12 feet and get the 30 foot or the 30 degree angle.
Ben Larue:
Absolutely. And you thought you'd never need trigonometry, right? Come on!
Gil Illescas:
Straight up G, as in geometry, right here.
Ben Larue:
Let's go.
Micah Shearer:
You still don't need trigonometry because it's geometry.
Ben Larue:
That's right.
Gil Illescas:
[inaudible 00:12:47]. Retail and warehouse really have different requirements for camera heights based on what they want to do, because you may have the two cameras for the same scene, but one could be 15 feet higher than the other because the one that's higher wants to get a general scene view of everything and see who's in the picture. And the lower one might just, like I said, want to see what kind of bills are coming out of that register, stuff like that.
Calver Brewer:
As far as use cases go for different heights too, we do a lot of... So the higher that you go, the wider shot you're going to see. So we do a lot of car dealerships, they have a lot of inventory that take up a lot of space. That's a good use case for mounting something a little higher. So you can catch more cars with one camera. You don't necessarily need to see super fine details on the cars. You just need to see if somebody comes and steals it or not. So higher up camera, more cars captured with one camera.
Micah Shearer:
Sometimes in service space too, you're putting them higher up because you really do want to see the tops and the sides in a different way than you're concerned with when it's a person you're looking at.
Ben Larue:
Yeah, definitely. And to Cal's point about raising the height to get more general overview type shots, that's predominantly what we recommend to do with the panoramic 360 degree cameras we offer. We really seek higher mounts for those, just for the purpose of them being bird's eye view style cameras.
Gil Illescas:
And then that leads to the obstructions, awnings are another big obstruction that we run into. Things that go over doorways or windows that can block things and block the view of just people coming in towards the shot. You might be able to see them coming down a sidewalk or coming toward a location where there's a door, then you'll lose them right at the door where all your effective video that you're really chasing is going to be.
Ben Larue:
Absolutely. Do we have any final thoughts on camera mounting height, things to consider? Anything we haven't covered?
Gil Illescas:
Analytics.
Ben Larue:
Oh, that's right. Good point.
Gil Illescas:
Yeah, because analytics are getting so big and we're getting so big into analytics and improving them all the time, that that's going to be an important feature in dictating where we put cameras, height and where we're mounting happens and what location's going to be best is to help the analytics do their job.
Ben Larue:
Definitely. So to be more specific, right? Facial recognition type analytics, you obviously need to be able to recognize your face, but that there's some considerations that go into play there. Yeah, absolutely. LPC, license plate capture, or LPR, the recognition and logging of that tag. Some considerations with that without a doubt. So yeah, definitely if analytics are on the docket for you in the near future, camera height angle will be vastly important to you over somebody who's generally using it for general purposes. Any final thoughts though? That was a good one.
Calver Brewer:
Yeah, I guess, to sum it up, it just depends on the camera, depends on the use. Just take that into consideration whenever you're planning on mounting it. And it's super, super useful to just climb up on a ladder and kind of put your face where you're planning on mounting the camera and you'll sort of see what that sees.
Gil Illescas:
Yeah, consider what materials you have to mount it to and also what materials you're going to need to drop it down to the level that you need it in case it needs to be mounted at a high spot in a warehouse and drop down. So-
Ben Larue:
That's a good point too.
Gil Illescas:
There's a lot of stuff to consider based on where the camera's mounting and how you need to float it in place.
Ben Larue:
Right, right. That's a very good point. Very good point, absolutely. And we'll leave a bunch of these resources and links to these different resources, images, examples of this in the description below. And on that note too, if you are listening, watching to this and feeling overwhelmed with the sense of, 'Wow, I never even thought once about camera mounting height. Now I need to really think about it.' Don't feel overwhelmed or worried. That's what our team of consultants is here to do. They have tools and programs they can use to actually showcase these different angles and fields of view that you'll get from different cameras.
So feel free to check out those links below in the description too, if you'd like any help with system design and site map. So with that, I think we're going to wrap this one up. Really appreciate everyone's time here. Thanks again to the panel experts we had weighing in on this. Camera mounting height, more important than you might think. Check out again those resources below in the description. If you have any comments, thoughts, concerns about what you want to see in the future videos, let us know in the comments below. But until next time, thanks so much for tuning in.